Two Questions That Have Bugged Me for Decades

[Maxwell]

At the risk of wearing out my welcome here by posting way too much, I do have a couple of questions that have been bugging me literally for decades. One is definitely show related, and to prevent my setting a record number of posts in a week, I'll piggyback a second question that is at least Jack Benny related.

Question 1: Does anyone know anything about the tune used as the closing theme for Jack's TV show, like a title or any other tidbits? I assume it was written by Mahlon Merrick, and I found a web site that contained titles from a collection of his compositions and arrangements, but I had no clue as to what to look for.

The tune has always intrigued me because I like to find similarities in chord progressions for tunes. (I think it's an offshoot of being a jazz fan, but that's another story.) At any rate the changes for Jack's closing theme sound amazingly like "Keep Your Sunny Side Up" to me, and I've wondered for a long time if the similarity is deliberate.

Question 2: Probably around 35 years ago I found a couple of LPs in the Book Store of the university I attended at the time, called Great Moments in Radio, Volumes 1 and 2, narrated by Jack Benny. I assume (There I go again!) that it was produced by the Longines Symphonette Society because Jack introduces the chairman or president or whatever his title was.

Oddly enough, Allen's Alley is featured in the comedy section but not the Benny show. Anyway, what I've always wondered is if these two LPs were actually part of a larger collection and if it was ever transferred to CD or any other more modern medium. (My old turntable is almost ready to bite the dust.) Anybody know anything about these records?

Thanks in advance.

[LLeff]

Question 1: Does anyone know anything about the tune used as the closing theme for Jack's TV show, like a title or any other tidbits?

Take a look at our links page, and there's an amazing page that lists all the details on the various opening/closing themes. There were multiple ones over the years.

Question 2: Probably around 35 years ago I found a couple of LPs in the Book Store of the university I attended at the time, called Great Moments in Radio, Volumes 1 and 2, narrated by Jack Benny.
...
Anyway, what I've always wondered is if these two LPs were actually part of a larger collection and if it was ever transferred to CD or any other more modern medium. (My old turntable is almost ready to bite the dust.) Anybody know anything about these records?

They are indeed part of a larger set (8 records, I think). They come up all the time on Ebay, and I get about 2 or 3 letters a year from people who have a copy and think they've got the Holy Grail. You can probably pick up the whole boxed set for under $10.

Anything else bothering you? Benny-wise, I mean?

[Maxwell]

Take a look at our links page, and there's an amazing page that lists all the details on the various opening/closing themes. There were multiple ones over the years.

Hmmm...The one I'm thinking of was the one used for the reruns that appeared on CBN, so I can't swear they were original to Jack's Suncay night show. At any rate, I'm not sure which of the ones listed on the TV themes site, which I've used in the past, is the one I'm thinking of. If I were a betting man, I'd guess it was one used for reruns.

They are indeed part of a larger set (8 records, I think). They come up all the time on Ebay, and I get about 2 or 3 letters a year from people who have a copy and think they've got the Holy Grail. You can probably pick up the whole boxed set for under $10.

Anything else bothering you? Benny-wise, I mean?

Thanks for the info. I doubt if my ancient turntable could stand the strain of an 8-record set!

No more burning questions for now.

[LLeff]

Hmmm...The one I'm thinking of was the one used for the reruns that appeared on CBN, so I can't swear they were original to Jack's Suncay night show. At any rate, I'm not sure which of the ones listed on the TV themes site, which I've used in the past, is the one I'm thinking of. If I were a betting man, I'd guess it was one used for reruns.

Well, they used multiple themes on those as well. There's a swinging little ditty that they used only for Sundays with Jack Benny. Then the closer (and the opening) were different for different seasons. But MCA often put the opening of a different season on various shows because the original opening (or closing) had a direct sponsor endorsement. For example, the closing credits with the Bouche on the right would sometimes have the State Farm emblem on the bottom left. So you can't always triangulate the dates of these shows based on the opening/closing. This is incredibly annoying when I'm trying to date a show and see the spinning photo opening of the last season, then automatically assume a show to be from 1964-65, and it's really 1961.

OK, call me anal retentive. When it comes to Jack, I want it to be right.

[Maxwell]

Hmmm...The one I'm thinking of was the one used for the reruns that appeared on CBN, so I can't swear they were original to Jack's Suncay night show. At any rate, I'm not sure which of the ones listed on the TV themes site, which I've used in the past, is the one I'm thinking of. If I were a betting man, I'd guess it was one used for reruns.

Well, they used multiple themes on those as well. There's a swinging little ditty that they used only for Sundays with Jack Benny. Then the closer (and the opening) were different for different seasons. But MCA often put the opening of a different season on various shows because the original opening (or closing) had a direct sponsor endorsement. For example, the closing credits with the Bouche on the right would sometimes have the State Farm emblem on the bottom left. So you can't always triangulate the dates of these shows based on the opening/closing. This is incredibly annoying when I'm trying to date a show and see the spinning photo opening of the last season, then automatically assume a show to be from 1964-65, and it's really 1961.

OK, call me anal retentive. When it comes to Jack, I want it to be right.

If I called you anal retentive, it would be a case of pot meeting kettle, so I won't, if only for my own ego!

Upon further review, I can think of a couple of things that might help placing the tune to determine if it's one of those on that TV themes web site. One I've already mentioned, and that is that the tune seems to follow the chord changes for "Keep Your Sunny Side Up." The other is that on the CBN reruns, they used to play a brief excerpt of this theme going into commercial breaks.

It's really no big deal, really, but it's just one of those little things that catches my semi-tin ear. When I hear a tune based on the changes of another tune, I get really interested. (For example, Billy Strayhorn's "Take the A Train" is based on the changes of "Exactly Like You," but then again, the '20s tune "I Want to Be Love By You (Boop-Boop-Be-Doop)" seems to be the same set of changes, too, although I'm sure Strayhorn wasn't thinking of that tune when he wrote A Train.

I guess the real thing I'm wondering, but will never get the answer to, is if Mahlon Merric, who I assume wrote the music, had "Keep Your Sunny Side Up" in mind when he wrote the tune. (You know...comedy show and all that.) What was the name of the guy on radio who was the "tune detective"? I could use him right now!

[LLeff]

Upon further review, I can think of a couple of things that might help placing the tune to determine if it's one of those on that TV themes web site. One I've already mentioned, and that is that the tune seems to follow the chord changes for "Keep Your Sunny Side Up." The other is that on the CBN reruns, they used to play a brief excerpt of this theme going into commercial breaks.

...

I guess the real thing I'm wondering, but will never get the answer to, is if Mahlon Merric, who I assume wrote the music, had "Keep Your Sunny Side Up" in mind when he wrote the tune. (You know...comedy show and all that.) What was the name of the guy on radio who was the "tune detective"? I could use him right now!

After a couple days of thinking about this, I think I know the thematic connection you mean. Particularly on the line "If you have nine sons in a row, baseball teams make money you know" sounds like eight bars of the closing theme. Now, pull up the radio show of 2-28-43 and listen to the first number that surrounds the opening commercial. At the risk of doing a spoiler, it's the same song!

For some strange reason, I don't yet have the song listing for that episode. However, Don does back announce the song but it's mostly drowned out by the cheering of the audience. It sounds like he says the name as "Jefferson Fox I Love You", but I'm open to other interpretations. I'll grab the script at some point and double-check that. So it looks like either a) there was a real song behind the theme, or b) that Mahlon wrote a piece, named it one thing in 1943 and then possibly changed it later to "The S and J Stomp".

Ah, Benny research heavy lifting. It feels good.

[LLeff]

After a couple days of thinking about this, I think I know the thematic connection you mean. Particularly on the line "If you have nine sons in a row, baseball teams make money you know" sounds like eight bars of the closing theme. Now, pull up the radio show of 2-28-43 and listen to the first number that surrounds the opening commercial. At the risk of doing a spoiler, it's the same song!

And wouldn'tcha know it, we already had an old discussion thread on this song. Check it out:

http://www.jackbenny.org/wwwboard/messages/1407.html

[Maxwell]

After a couple days of thinking about this, I think I know the thematic connection you mean. Particularly on the line "If you have nine sons in a row, baseball teams make money you know" sounds like eight bars of the closing theme. Now, pull up the radio show of 2-28-43 and listen to the first number that surrounds the opening commercial. At the risk of doing a spoiler, it's the same song!

And wouldn'tcha know it, we already had an old discussion thread on this song. Check it out:

http://www.jackbenny.org/wwwboard/messages/1407.html

Thanks a million, Laura! I can't find that title in the web site listing Mahlon Merrick's papers, but at least I now have a title to play with.

You're right about the "If you have nine sons in a row" part, btw, but I've tried mentally superimposing the two tunes together, and they seem to fit pretty closely. Unfortunately I'm not good enough to sit down at the piano and figure out the chords to both tunes, so I don't know if the chords are a perfect match or not, but the chord structures of both songs seem to be pretty close.