The Lunch Counter and effeminate males

[TEADJones]

I was noticing while listening to the show after The Fiddler that Frank Nelson's lunch counter joke (something like "If I could break an egg, I'd punch you right in the nose") kind of parallels the depiction of the effeminate lunch counter worker of an earlier era (Morrow/Beloin) joke ("put down that cup cake"). I'm guessing that working at a lunch counter during the 40's was generally accepted/considered as being non-masculine" work.

What do you all think? Have you seen any films of the period that come to mind and reflect the same (I know "The Killers" and "Out of the Past" have lunch counter guys that, if I recall, seem to shrink away from the violent gunmen types that they encounter).

TEDAJones

[kurt]

I don't think there was anything considered effeminate about working at a lunch counter. I think the lunch counter guys on the Benny program (played by Morrow and Beloin) were played for laughs, and that's the way they chose to portray them.

As for the ones in the films, they cowered because they were being threatened with guns. Whole other deal, there.

[BobR]

I never had that sort of impression of these characters having effeminate traits, rather just sort of sarcastic wise-guys instead.

[alain]

I agree with Kurt.

If anything, i always thought Jack Benny "lunch counter" workers were mostly portrayed as " smart-aleck " types.

[LLeff]

I think the degree of effeminacy of various characters on the Benny show has to do a lot with the listener's perception. In watching "The Celluloid Closet", there is an extensive discussion of Mrs. Danvers in "Rebecca" as having a lesbian connection to the dead wife. I understand the reasoning behind the view, but am not personally convinced of the argument.

Ed Beloin played a wide range of characters on the show, some of whom could be considered effeminate or gay. For example, Twinkle the makeup man. So once you've established that characteristic with a voice, then one can view connections such as deciding that Mr. Billingsley was supposed to be gay (although my personal thought is that he was just supposed to be crazy and relatively asexual). One could make the same presumption about Frank Nelson's "Yeeesssss" character, speaking in clipped tones and being something of a fussbudget. Was it intentional? I kind of doubt it. It was just something that made people laugh.

Now there are some characters that I think were intentionally played up as effeminate. The aforementioned Twinkle is one such case. Also the briefly recurring character of Logan Jerkfinkle in the New York shows. However, I believe that both those characters made passing comments about their wives. Of course, it was not uncommon at that time for homosexuals to be married (for various reasons). The character of Buckingham Benny in early 1937 (a window dresser in Pomona), and almost any character voiced by Benny Baker, is in this category for me. The "sissy" was an archetype, and the Benny writers used it.

[Brad]

Frank Nelson's "Yeeesssss" character, speaking in clipped tones and being something of a fussbudget. Was it intentional? I kind of doubt it. It was just something that made people laugh.


Characters as broadly played as the "yessssss" man would be perceived very differently today. Go figure.

[KCAgape@aol.com]

I remember watching an old "Twilight Zone" when there was a group of people traveling, and they stopped in a diner. (I think that particular show was called "The Diner.") All sorts of odd stuff happened like the jukebox turning on and off. It was snowing, and the group could not go much farther, and was stranded. Then, they received word the bridge was clear, and off they went. Then, a few minutes later, one of the group members returned to the diner, and informed the soda jerk they are died because the bridge was out, and indeed he was from Mars. Wherupon, the soda jerk removed his cap, and there was a third eye in the middle of his forehead, and he said he was from Venus! Ever since then, I thought soda jerks are macho!

[LLeff]

Then, a few minutes later, one of the group members returned to the diner, and informed the soda jerk they are died because the bridge was out, and indeed he was from Mars. Wherupon, the soda jerk removed his cap, and there was a third eye in the middle of his forehead, and he said he was from Venus! Ever since then, I thought soda jerks are macho!

That's funny...I thought men were from Mars and women were from Venus.