So I'm done with 1951-1952 season.....

[grittys457]

and there have been endless amounts of retold jokes, gags and entire skits. Did the writers all go on strike that year? I swear I'm able to finish half the lines before I hear them.

[Brad from Georgia]

and there have been endless amounts of retold jokes, gags and entire skits. Did the writers all go on strike that year? I swear I'm able to finish half the lines before I hear them.

The show was battling two obstacles that season: the radio budget was falling, and Jack was beginning his TV show (very gradually, but it was a new medium, and the writers were working both on the radio and the TV shows). Because of that, I think the trend toward recycling markedly increased in the early fifties radio shows. IIRC, matters do improve somewhat, but there are shows that virtually re-do old scripts all the way through the fifties.

[Jack Benny]

and there have been endless amounts of retold jokes, gags and entire skits. Did the writers all go on strike that year? I swear I'm able to finish half the lines before I hear them.

The show was battling two obstacles that season: the radio budget was falling, and Jack was beginning his TV show (very gradually, but it was a new medium, and the writers were working both on the radio and the TV shows). Because of that, I think the trend toward recycling markedly increased in the early fifties radio shows. IIRC, matters do improve somewhat, but there are shows that virtually re-do old scripts all the way through the fifties.

Yes, the budget was falling, but between radio and television they had, what like six writers. That season only had a television show once every six weeks or so, so you would think their would have been a lot of time for the writers to work on the radio show. I wonder if the true impact is not having Jack as available as the show editor, like a ship without a captain. Does anyone know which writers wrote the radio show and which writers wrote the television show? It looks like he added new writers and took some of his old writers into tv, while leaving some of his writers to just do the radio show, and if this is the case, I could see how all of the writers may have been a little stressed out that season.

[helloagain]

Another thing that hurt the 50s shows was the departure of Phil Harris in 1952. Bob Crosby was a fine musician and probably a nice guy, too, but he was a poor replacement for Phil. Instead of trying to find his own character, they gave him the same jokes that Phil was doing, about the peccadilloes of the guys in the band. It didn't fit. Also, since they were transcribing the shows by that time, some of them sounded 'canned'.

[grittys457]

I swear they did the same Palm Springs show three times. The first Palm Springs show (Teepee motel) is probably my favorite episode ever.

[Yhtapmys]

the radio budget was falling

Brad, what were the budget figures in the 1950-51 and 51-52 seasons? Was the show working on an annual contract?

Yhtapmys

[Yhtapmys]

Bob Crosby was a fine musician and probably a nice guy, too, but he was a poor replacement for Phil. Instead of trying to find his own character, they gave him the same jokes that Phil was doing, about the peccadilloes of the guys in the band. It didn't fit.

I don't know if it "didn't fit" but it's about all Bob was reduced to doing.

Unlike any other regular on the show, Crosby was an established performer when he arrived and known to people through television, so that hamstrung the writers from developing a different personality for him. Biob had to be Bob. And Bob, on TV and his daytime radio show, was just kind of a pleasant, low-key guy who casually managed to fit in a Bing joke somewhere. That doesn't work for a supporting character when the supporting cast is supposed to be somewhat odd and pick on Jack.

Granted, Phil had been on radio for several years prior to the Benny show, but he didn't really exhibit a lot of a personality on anything I've heard, so the writers were able to create something when he arrived.
The writers were finally reduced to using Charlie Bagby as the musical stooge. To paraphrase the old saying, as a comedian, Charlie was a good piano player.

[Maxwell]

I think Yht has hit the nail on the head about Bob Crosby. I saw him described once (and quoted that description somewhere on this site) that Crosby was a "genial host" or MC. He was hired by the co-op band whose president was Gil Rodin to front the band after they left Ben Pollack on the recommendation of Bing Crosby. His previous professional experience was as the "boy singer" for the Dorsey Brothers Orchestra.

As nominal leader his job was to be genial, introduce the numbers, pretend to lead the band, and sing several songs each night. He was a Crosby and had the gift of gab, so it worked nicely. He brought these gifts to the TV and radio show. He was a genial MC with a time slot where these gifts were just right.

I saw Bob Crosby perform in the '90s (or maybe late '80s, at any rate a few years before he passed away) and can vouch for his gifts as genial host/MC. But it wasn't enough to build a comic personna around.

[JohnM]

I keep reading this thread title as "I'm SO done with the 1951-1952 season..."

[Gerry O.]

This is just a thought, but I think it would have been very funny if Jack's program had replaced Phil Harris with an orchestra leader who was the complete opposite of the Harris character....a nerdy, small-town type of "square", like the kind of character that Meredith Willson used to play on various radio shows. In fact, Willson would have been an excellent replacement, but he was busy working on NBC's "The Big Show" (heard directly opposite Jack's radio show) at the time of Phil's departure. With that type of "square" character, if the public made a mental comparison to Phil, it would have added to the comedy.

[Yhtapmys]

This is just a thought, but I think it would have been very funny if Jack's program had replaced Phil Harris with an orchestra leader who was the complete opposite of the Harris character....a nerdy, small-town type of "square", like the kind of character that Meredith Willson used to play on various radio shows.

You know, Gerry, I thought about him when reading this thread, and about all they could have done with him is Jack "wait a minute"-ing yet another of his windy stories about Iowa. Willson never really sounded natural enough for my liking on radio (Peter Van Steeden on Allen's show was even stiffer).

I honestly don't know who would have worked for Jack's show besides Phil. Ideally, you'd bring in someone relatively unknown and create a likeable persona, much like they did with Phil, but the days of bandleaders were starting to wane and I don't know how many good unknowns there would have been out there, say, compared with 1940.

It's a delicate balance, too. Jack would want someone who was funny but who didn't upstage him. Phil managed to do that, despite his aggressive personality on the show.

Yhtapmys

[Gerry O.]

Phil Harris really was one of a kind. Other radio comedy shows would make their bandleaders a comedy character, but most of those guys were pretty bad....You could almost see the printed words as those guys read their lines, but Phil was a natural.

I've often thought about how Phil evolved as a comedian. He really wasn't all that funny when he started with Jack back in 1936....His delivery was rather soft-spoken and dry. I'm sure that Jack and the rest of the cast had no idea that Phil would eventually become such a lively and hilarious comedian.

[Maxwell]

This is just a thought, but I think it would have been very funny if Jack's program had replaced Phil Harris with an orchestra leader who was the complete opposite of the Harris character....a nerdy, small-town type of "square", like the kind of character that Meredith Willson used to play on various radio shows.

You know, Gerry, I thought about him when reading this thread, and about all they could have done with him is Jack "wait a minute"-ing yet another of his windy stories about Iowa. Willson never really sounded natural enough for my liking on radio (Peter Van Steeden on Allen's show was even stiffer).

I honestly don't know who would have worked for Jack's show besides Phil. Ideally, you'd bring in someone relatively unknown and create a likeable persona, much like they did with Phil, but the days of bandleaders were starting to wane and I don't know how many good unknowns there would have been out there, say, compared with 1940.

It's a delicate balance, too. Jack would want someone who was funny but who didn't upstage him. Phil managed to do that, despite his aggressive personality on the show.

Yhtapmys

How about Ray Noble? Was he still with Edgar Bergen at that point?

[helloagain]

I think Phil broke the mold.