Legal status of program recordings in 2007

[JohnM]

Not sure if this is the right forum for this Q - but -

I've been wondering what is the situation with regard to copyright protection of the radio show recordings and I guess the TV shows too. Is it legal to download files that are available for free? If I buy a CD of radio shows, does 100% of the money go into the pocket of someone unaffiliated with the ownsership of the original programs? If so, is that OK, since it's more than 50 years ago (or whatever the rule is) and it's in the public domain?

[ZEjackbennykid]

John M. The proceeds go to the company selling them and the estate of the programs original owners.

[Jack Benny]

John M. The proceeds go to the company selling them and the estate of the programs original owners.

Sorry Kid, but this is almost never the case. If the collections are in MP3 format then I can't think of a one that actually gives any proceeds back to the original owners. Now in the case of "Radio Spirits" and companies that specialize in CD audio versions of the episodes, then what the Kid is saying may be more often the case. I don't know. The legal area seems to be huge and gray, but there don't seem to be many copyright holders that are trying to stop any of these sales. The sellers always claim Public Domain, but few seem to really know the facts.

[LLeff]

Not sure if this is the right forum for this Q - but -

I've been wondering what is the situation with regard to copyright protection of the radio show recordings and I guess the TV shows too. Is it legal to download files that are available for free? If I buy a CD of radio shows, does 100% of the money go into the pocket of someone unaffiliated with the ownsership of the original programs? If so, is that OK, since it's more than 50 years ago (or whatever the rule is) and it's in the public domain?

Good question, and I'll try to give a straightforward answer to some rather complex legalities. Suffice it to say that I researched this, with the help of a lawyer, over the course of a few years.

Who owns the shows?

Radio shows - These belong to the Jack Benny Estate. A California case regarding the Lone Ranger shows ruled that radio show recordings are considered a "derivative work" of the scripts, so who owns the scripts owns the shows. Since Jack employed the writers directly, the scripts are considered a "work for hire" and belong to the person paying for the work (that being Jack).

TV shows - Mixed bag on these. Some of them are in the public domain, and some belong to NBC Universal (who through a series of mergers obtained the material of MCA, who bought J&M Productions).

So who gets the money?

Radio - Radio Spirits is the only company with an agreement with the Benny Estate to distribute the shows. The money goes to Radio Spirits, and a royalty to the Benny Estate. All other distribution channels are illegal, and 100% of the money (as far as I know) goes to the seller. Free downloads are also illegal (unless authorized, as with the IJBFC).

TV, Public Domain shows - 100% of the money goes to the seller, and free downloads are fine.

TV, Copyrighted shows - In theory, these should be sold only by NBC Universal or a designee.

When does the copyright run out?

Radio - The timeframe on these, being unregistered works, is the life of the author plus 50 years. Not sure when Harry Conn died, but probably the 60s. Bill Morrow died in 1971 and Ed Beloin in 1992, so shows up to mid-1943 will run out in 2042. George Balzer just died this year, so the rest of the radio shows will run out in 2056.

TV - Universal renewed the copyrights on most of their shows in 1987-93 (depending on when the prior copyrights were expiring), so those have been extended for another 67 years.

[JohnM]

So who gets the money?

Radio - Radio Spirits is the only company with an agreement with the Benny Estate to distribute the shows. The money goes to Radio Spirits, and a royalty to the Benny Estate. All other distribution channels are illegal, and 100% of the money (as far as I know) goes to the seller. Free downloads are also illegal (unless authorized, as with the IJBFC).

So - how would you advise someone who, I don't know, you might call obsessive, who wants to listen to every single episode in order and not just greatest hits collections, to go about it legally? This person prefers downloads but buying CDs is fine too. Is this even possible?

When does the copyright run out?

Radio - The timeframe on these, being unregistered works, is the life of the author plus 50 years. Not sure when Harry Conn died, but probably the 60s. Bill Morrow died in 1971 and Ed Beloin in 1992, so shows up to mid-1943 will run out in 2042. George Balzer just died this year, so the rest of the radio shows will run out in 2056.

Wouldn't it be based on Jack's death as copyright owner, rather than the writers for hire?

[LLeff]

So - how would you advise someone who, I don't know, you might call obsessive, who wants to listen to every single episode in order and not just greatest hits collections, to go about it legally? This person prefers downloads but buying CDs is fine too. Is this even possible?

At the risk of sounding self-serving, the IJBFC library is the cheapest legal way to go. But Radio Spirits is the only legal commercial option. Radio Spirits has also not yet chosen to make all of Jack's shows available for download, but that may be changing. Stay tuned.

Wouldn't it be based on Jack's death as copyright owner, rather than the writers for hire?

Nope...it's the life of the author, not the employer/work commissioner.

[Jack Benny]

[the IJBFC library is the cheapest legal way to go.

Hey Laura, I qlways wondered how this worked, so you must have approval of the Jack Benny estate to offer the Jack Benny shows on your site? Are you the only site that you know of that has approval? I know you have a great relationship with many of the folks involved, but how exactly did you get their permission, or was it just kind of grandfathereed in after they allowed you to start making tapes years ago?

[LLeff]

Hey Laura, I qlways wondered how this worked, so you must have approval of the Jack Benny estate to offer the Jack Benny shows on your site? Are you the only site that you know of that has approval? I know you have a great relationship with many of the folks involved, but how exactly did you get their permission, or was it just kind of grandfathereed in after they allowed you to start making tapes years ago?

Basically, we're an "official" fan club, meaning that we're formally authorized by the celebrity or Estate (in the case of deceased celebrities). So as long as I keep them fully informed of my activities (which happens de facto because the whole family gets the Times), then the activities are similarly authorized.

[Jack Benny]

Danke mein frau, du bist ser gut! Why I'm speaking in poorly spelled German I will never know!