Jack and Nostalgia vs Jack and Timelessness

[shimp scrampi]

Here's a question for everyone, it's a bit hard to explain. I was wondering how many appreciate Jack mostly as a facet of a time period they're interested in, or generally are interested in other music, comedy, literature, food, furniture, etc. of Jack's peak period, say late '20s through the 1940s.

I fully confess to having a good chunk of my entertainment and aesthetic preferences in the past, but largely they're post-WWII and pre-Vietnam era things, a generation or so after Jack's peak of radio creativity and popularity. So a lot of the guest stars, movies, etc. that are referenced or appear on Jack's show are a little outside my interests. I don't have anything against them, I'm just not as familiar with them as later stuff. Even my often-professed liking for Burns & Allen on these boards is mostly centered around their '50s TV show rather than the radio program. And strangely, loving the Benny show doesn't make me want to pursue that era a whole lot further!

For me, what strikes me about the Benny show is how incredibly fresh and modern it seems overall. The pacing, the gags, and the performances, I think, could compete easily with anything being offered up today.

So how many just like Jack because it's great, timeless stuff, and how many are into the show or Jack's work in a broader sense of nostalgia for the period - and by "nostalgia" I don't mean you necessarily literally remember the period fondly yourself, you just love the era? I'm sure there is overlap, but does anyone else just like Jack's show, and not necessarily the period it comes from? Or am I odd man out on this one?

[Clyde]

I enjoy Jack's comedy for the gentle, subtle humor in it. I enjoy the music of his era, but I also enjoy a great deal of today's music. I enjoy many of the movies of his era, I do not have that great an interest in today's fare. I understand they are in color and sound now? I've heard interviews where Jack stated he had no interest in living in the past. I agree. I look forward to tomorrow, next week, next year and beyond. What was...WAS. But his comedy will remain timeless.

[Maxwell]

Interesting question. I'm a huge fan of the music of that period, but I also like music as dissimilar to that as the Beatles and Frank Zappa. I love listening to OTR, but I think the reason I like that is because it calls for using your imagination rather than for any longing for the past. I am a kind of history buff, so that would have something to do with it.

However, I can't say I like Jack Benny's comedy because of any nostalgiz factor, even though I did grow up watching his TV show every other Sunday (in my earliest recollections) or weekly after that. I like his comedy because it is funny. Period.

I like comedy from any time period if it makes me laugh. So I like George and Gracie, Fibber and Molly, Fred Allen, etc., and I like George Carlin and Richard Prior. I also like Bill Cosby when he does standup. I don't know if there is a common denominator here or not. Maybe there is. My favorite American author is Mark Twain. Maybe I like comedy that involves some kind of structure or theme. Beats me, but it isn't nostalgia...at least I don't think it is.

[Alan]

In general, i tend to follow and/or like more recent news and entertainment. Apart from an occasional re-listen to a (very) few series, i would probably have passed through the otr hobby after 3-4 years if i wasn't anchored by JB. However, i do enjoy an occasional "older" film (ie-before my movie memories begin, with Star Wars...) and i like small doses of non-entertainment history...

(and yes, i agree completely that JB is timeless...)

I would guess that there is a wide spectrum of JB fans....from those that focus mostly on all facets of 30's to 50's, to those who pick and choose, all the way to those who like JB but are otherwise mostly into current stuff.
(and all points in between)

But i would also venture to guess that maybe at least one common thread exists: If you are a JB fan, you are more likely than most in the general population to like (or at least be open to) non-current art and affairs.

[LLeff]

A very good question. I can't claim first-hand nostalgia, because I didn't live through the period. And it's hard to say that one is truly nostalgic for the Depression or WWII. I found it amazing that a poll once said that the movies people would most like to "live in" were "Gone With the Wind" and "The Sound of Music". People want to relive the Civil War and the Nazi takeover?

As has been stated by a few others, I love old music. I collect records. But it's not the only thing on my playlist. I love old radios and have many of them. However, my love for them is equal parts their connection to the shows, the artistry of the cabinets, and a fascination for the technology. Same thing for my victrolas, with a heavier emphasis on the artistry for the horn victrolas. I like the style of the clothes from there, but I could never hope to fit them. And, of course, I like the movies and stars of that era; again, not exclusively.

There was a series on PBS a while back called 1940s House (successor to the wonderful 1900 House) where people were put into a British house with all the technology and products of that era. They had to keep house, support the War, deal with rationing, and all the things that would have befallen a house (with the exception of actually losing a loved one in the War) in 1940. And it's HARD WORK! If the series is out on DVD by now and you haven't seen it, I recommend it.

Also, I find that I learn a lot of history from the shows. This comes often when I'm listening to a show for the Yesterday USA spot and I have to go research a reference. This week it was the San Francisco Conference, which was a precursor to the United Nations. So I enjoy listening to the shows in both a modern and historical context, understanding what was going on in the world and lives of its original listeners.

I'm perfectly happy to be living in the Internet age and be able to enjoy "the good stuff" of previous eras. Is it nostalgia? You be the judge. I call it the best of both worlds.

[Jack Benny]

I'm perfectly happy to be living in the Internet age and be able to enjoy "the good stuff" of previous eras. Is it nostalgia? You be the judge. I call it the best of both worlds.

Wow! Laura you nailed my exact feeling! My wife often says that I was born in the wrong era, but I would never give up the modern ease and comfort of my life for a life in the past.

Also, folks that listened to Jack in the 30's and 40's listened to each show once and then for all purposes it was gone until next week. I have almost 1,000 of Jack's shows in MP3 format on just a handful of CD's. I can listen to any of his broadcasts on a whim. I have heard my favorites at least 5 times already.

No one in the history of the world has been able to have as much access to as many hours of entertainment as I do through the internet, CD, DVD, and TV. Ten years ago accessing the same information was much more difficult. If anything I may have been born too soon, in a few years we should be able to have every document and recorded performance ever made within easy access.

Jack Benny, the performer, lived in the perfect time for him! He was able to go from Vaudville to television in his lifetime. Even after his passing his show has managed to conquer both technology and the internet, and being arguably both more accesible and popular than it has been in years.

For the listener and watcher of great performances this is the best of times!

[shimp scrampi]

Interesting answers everyone, I agree with a lot of what's said here. I also thought it was somewhat ironic that Jack himself expressed very little interest in nostalgia for the "good old days" in interviews, but it was seemingly the "nostalgia" crowd that keeps his memory alive. But from this little poll, it seems clear that a number of people are like me, valuing Jack's shows overall more for their intrinsic value than as a part of a general kind of nostalgia.

The past is a great place to visit...but I wouldn't want to live there! (and for anyone that would like to point out that I am an archaeologist living in (Colonial) Williamsburg, Virginia - NEVER MIND!!!)

[Maxwell]

I'd like to follow up on some of the things that have been said here. My parents were both born in 1919, so they were in high school during the worst of the depression and even though my dad had a perforated ear drum, a wife, and a 3-year-old, he ended up serving in the army from 1944-46. He was opposite the Siegfried line when the bridge at Remagen was captured.

I fully agree that I wouldn't want to live during the time they grew up. My dad's family was probably worse off financially than my mom's. He mainly lived with his grandmother who had raised ten kids of her own and was raising at least two of his cousins along with him. They used to get coal to heat their house by walking alongside the Illinois Central railroad tracks and picking up what had fallen off the trains.

When my dad was in the army, my mom and brother forced to moved back in with her parents. I was commenting to my wife the other day while listening to some OTR broadcasts from VE day that people today have no concept of what total war is, complete with rationing, hundreds of thousands of people in the military, etc.

Oddly enough my dad always looked back fondly at those years. He loved the music, the movies, the radio programs. (He and my mom saw GWTW on their honeymoon and found out about Pearl Harbor upon leaving a movie.)

I kind of wonder what my son thinks about the time I grew up in. The two Kennedy assassinations, the King assassination, Vietnam, etc. But I look back fondly at my high school and college years. I have a strange feeling that as we age and acquire more knowledge of the world, and maybe even get beaten down a little by it, we tend to look back with some nostalgia at our youth.

However (and I'm finally getting around to my point), I really don't know if it's possible to have nostalgia about a time when we weren't alive. There are several time periods that really fasinate me: the Civil War because it's just fascinating history (I'm currently re-reading Shelby Foote's three volumes on that subject), the turn of the 20th century for its music (I've loved ragtime since I was about 10 years old and first saw Max Morath on a series on what was then called NET), and the period between the World Wars for the music, movies, and radio (jazz, classic silent comedy, the Golden Age of Hollywood, theater of the mind).

I think my attitude is this: It's a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

[LLeff]

I kind of wonder what my son thinks about the time I grew up in. The two Kennedy assassinations, the King assassination, Vietnam, etc. But I look back fondly at my high school and college years. I have a strange feeling that as we age and acquire more knowledge of the world, and maybe even get beaten down a little by it, we tend to look back with some nostalgia at our youth.

Perhaps I need a few more years under my belt, but I have to say that I don't feel that way about the 70s (I was born in 1969). I mean, who wants to wear plaid trousers and bell bottoms? I was once at a shoe store around the time that giant platform shoes were making a comeback, and encountered a middle-aged gentlemen restocking the shelves. We had a little good-natured chatter, and then started talking about the shoes. He picked up a pair of particularly ugly platforms and said something like, "What is this? Who would wear these?" I responded, "Yeah! Doesn't anyone remember that the 70s were EMBARASSING?!?!"

Not to say that there was nothing good about the 70s...like "Mary Tyler Moore", "The Bob Newhart Show", "Network", and "Jack Benny's 20th Anniversary Special". But for me personally, there's a lot more steak to be found in the legacy of its several previous decades.

[Brad from Georgia]

Have to agree with Laura. I'm old enough to remember Jack on TV, but not on radio. For me, his comedy is still extraordinarily fresh and funny, and I listen to the radio shows because of that--but the occasional "dated" references give me a nice little extra helping of nostalgia. Jack's show is the Jell-O....the nostalgia is the little blob of whipped cream on top.

[Maxwell]

I kind of wonder what my son thinks about the time I grew up in. The two Kennedy assassinations, the King assassination, Vietnam, etc. But I look back fondly at my high school and college years. I have a strange feeling that as we age and acquire more knowledge of the world, and maybe even get beaten down a little by it, we tend to look back with some nostalgia at our youth.

Perhaps I need a few more years under my belt, but I have to say that I don't feel that way about the 70s (I was born in 1969). I mean, who wants to wear plaid trousers and bell bottoms? I was once at a shoe store around the time that giant platform shoes were making a comeback, and encountered a middle-aged gentlemen restocking the shelves. We had a little good-natured chatter, and then started talking about the shoes. He picked up a pair of particularly ugly platforms and said something like, "What is this? Who would wear these?" I responded, "Yeah! Doesn't anyone remember that the 70s were EMBARASSING?!?!"

Not to say that there was nothing good about the 70s...like "Mary Tyler Moore", "The Bob Newhart Show", "Network", and "Jack Benny's 20th Anniversary Special". But for me personally, there's a lot more steak to be found in the legacy of its several previous decades.

I doubt that you would feel much nostalgia for the '70s simply because you weren't really old enough then. Most people look back with some nostalgia to their teen years, so dare I make the accusation? You really miss the '80s, don't you? The Cosby Show, Family Ties, Hill St. Blues, Cheers....and that was just NBC on Thursday nights!

Having spent the last 30-some years of my life around teenagers, I've come to the conclusion that time makes us forget the living hell we all went through during those years and we start believing the propaganda fed to us by parents and teachers: "These are the best years of your life."

One thing I regret about having been a teenager in the '60s. I have no recollection of any late OTR while it was going on except for the infamous "Amos 'n' Andy Music Hall." I wish I'd been aware of the last years of Benny, and the radio runs of Gunsmoke, Have Gun Will Travel, etc.

[shimp scrampi]

I think nostalgia - in whatever period - tends to center around "escapist" aspects of daily life anyway - entertainment, vacation spots, special events, foods, etc. I think it's pretty rare to have nostalgic feelings for hardships or even the daily routine, but rather usually it's those things that made hardships or the 'ordinary' bearable. As another who was a teenager in the '80s, I can honestly say I don't have much desire to revisit my crappy teenage jobs, high school daily grind, styling mousse, or parachute pants. And even in those days my 'escapes' were kind of retro, TV, so Cosby, Family Ties, etc. doesn't have much appeal for me either. I was actually horrified when Nick at Nite switched out the old stuff for 'Cheers' etc. Nothing against those programs, but they still seem too recent for me.

And the "Bob Newhart Show" is the perfect example of this paradox, in line with what LL was saying about the '70s - watching some of the first-season DVD recently, I was generally entertained by the comedy (though it didn't hold up as well as I'd remembered - gotta get 'Newhart' released, I think the later series was a little more surreal) I almost felt smothered by how BROWN the show was, brown costumes, brown sets. '70s earth tones at their worst, it was like staring at a plate of German food (which I like, no offense intended). The 40's through mid-sixties didn't have such extreme stylistic excesses, so Jack Benny in a plain suit looks perfectly acceptable today, whereas Bob's aerodynamic lapels unfortunately raise the hackles.

[Brad from Georgia]

I listened to an episode from 1942 just recently, and it reminded me of this thread. Jack and the gang are broadcasting from a military base, and after (Ed Beloin?) makes a brief appearance, Jack says, "Now, that's what I call a G.I. haircut." He got a huge laugh--I've gathered by now that the recurring character is bald--but then as the laughter dies down, Jack adds for the home audience, "G.I. That's 'government issue,' folks." And that reminded me that there was a time when the well-known abbreviation was new to the civilian folks. From time to time, the shows remind me of their period, even with throwaway exaggeration jokes about Jack's age: "Did you get that from President Lincoln, Jack?" "Oh, Mary, I barely remember the man!" Or "We take you back now nearly ninety years. It's 1845, and--"

But the gags are still funny, because most of them build on character. I find old Bob Hope shows hard to listen to--his jokes were so topical that they've lost their edge (and I think half their impact was their topicality rather than their humor, anyway). Sometimes, as when Hope and Crosby are just clowining, it works, but the monologues don't seem funny to me. I always laugh aloud at least once when listening to Jack and the gang, though: "My name's Jack, but you can call me Ace." "All right, Jack-Ace." "Hmmm...I've gotta change that name somehow...."

[LLeff]

As another who was a teenager in the '80s, I can honestly say I don't have much desire to revisit my crappy teenage jobs, high school daily grind, styling mousse, or parachute pants. And even in those days my 'escapes' were kind of retro, TV, so Cosby, Family Ties, etc. doesn't have much appeal for me either.

My turn to second your emotion, shimp, very much so. I never watched Family Ties, Cheers, or Hill Street Blues. I was certainly aware of them, but about that time I developed the attitude that anything so popular couldn't be very good because it somehow appealed to some least common denominator. Well...Jack Benny excepted. Or perhaps a lot of things from the past excepted. But that analysis could go on for hours.

I recently re-watched a few Cosby Shows (and have to mention that it was Cosby himself who was the opening act at the renovated Genesee Theatre). Cosby was a show that my family watched very devotedly, as I had grown up on my mother's Bill Cosby comedy records (e.g., Revenge, Wonderfulness, etc.). The shows hold up pretty well, and guess why? Because they're all CHARACTER BASED, just like Jack's. Someone's always going to have to watch their little sister and lose her, or a kid is going to get into trouble or have to convince a parent to let them do something, etc. So watching Cosby also isn't a delve into nostalgia (for me)...it's a delve into the dynamics between characters, specifically family dynamics.

And of course, both Jack and Cos were Jell-O spokesmen. So there.

[Maxwell]

As another who was a teenager in the '80s, I can honestly say I don't have much desire to revisit my crappy teenage jobs, high school daily grind, styling mousse, or parachute pants. And even in those days my 'escapes' were kind of retro, TV, so Cosby, Family Ties, etc. doesn't have much appeal for me either.

My turn to second your emotion, shimp, very much so. I never watched Family Ties, Cheers, or Hill Street Blues. I was certainly aware of them, but about that time I developed the attitude that anything so popular couldn't be very good because it somehow appealed to some least common denominator. Well...Jack Benny excepted. Or perhaps a lot of things from the past excepted. But that analysis could go on for hours.

I recently re-watched a few Cosby Shows (and have to mention that it was Cosby himself who was the opening act at the renovated Genesee Theatre). Cosby was a show that my family watched very devotedly, as I had grown up on my mother's Bill Cosby comedy records (e.g., Revenge, Wonderfulness, etc.). The shows hold up pretty well, and guess why? Because they're all CHARACTER BASED, just like Jack's. Someone's always going to have to watch their little sister and lose her, or a kid is going to get into trouble or have to convince a parent to let them do something, etc. So watching Cosby also isn't a delve into nostalgia (for me)...it's a delve into the dynamics between characters, specifically family dynamics.

And of course, both Jack and Cos were Jell-O spokesmen. So there.

Without actually coming right out and saying it, you've hit on one of the things that the classic comedy series (radio or TV) have in common. You're right about character dynamics, and when you get down to it, all of the shows we've been talking about (Cheers, Cosby, Newhart's shows, All in the Family, Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, etc. and of course Jack, Fibber & Molly, Fred Allen, etc.) have something else in common that is closely related.

All of them had a strong ensemble cast and strong writing that really did develop the characters, enough to make them recognizable as people we might actually know.

I was at the dentist today, and the technician cleaning my teeth was talking about Everybody Loves Raymond. I have to admit, I haven't watched that show much at all until recently, but it shares the same characteristics we've been talking about that make for timeless comedy. Here's how she put it, "Every family has characters like that."

I've known people like characters on every show I've listed. The characters are, of course, exaggerations. That's what makes it comedy. But we all know people like Jack and Mary and Don and Dennis and Phil and Rob and Laura and Cliff Huxtable, etc., etc., etc.