The Naughty '40s

[Maxwell]

Was the movie production code in effect in 1933 when the Marx Bros. made "Duck Soup"? If it was, then it was far less strict than apparently radio was since in it Chico sings, "Pea-nuuuuuuts...to you!"

I was just thinking the other day that if the Hays Code had been in effect when "Horse Feathers" was made, I'm sure they wouldn't have allowed a very important scene to take place in a speakeasy!

The Production code officially went into effect in 1930, which predates both of those movies, oddly enough. The Marx Brothers line that gets me is one that you can barely hear... Groucho is asking Margaret Dumont about her rather large butler...
"How do you pay him, by the hour or by the pound?" and then very quietly as they're walking away he says... "or by the fire?"

One phrase that I find interesting is "silly ass." That must have been a common phrase back then, it shows up in the 1947 Chaplin movie "Monsieur Verdoux" where he is examining "diamonds" his wife bought and proclaims them: "Glass, you silly ass, glass!"

I am shocked to hear that in a Hays Code period movie, but there it is in black and white! (pun intended.)

In a Fibber McGee program I heard McGee call Dr Gamble a "silly astigmatic ox," and that got quite a shocked laugh from the crowd, who were apparently familiar with the phrase "silly ass."

Was this still referring only to the farm animal? (I have also heard "jackass" in OTR, although it is extremey rare.) Is "silly" a precurser to the current "dumb-" or "smart-"?? If so, I can't imagine a 1940s public letting it be said in a Charlie Chaplin film. Was that perhaps a word that got "dirtier" (once it became associated with the human anatomy,) while others like "Guts" and "Belly" got more widely accepted?

AFAIK stupid-, dumb-, silly- and smart- are used with reference to the notoriously stupid farm animal, which can't be too intelligent if it is used as a beast of burden. IIRC the use of the word with reference to the human anatomy is a corruption of the British "arse." Either that or the British use "arse" is a euphamism for "ass."

[shimp scrampi]

Whoa, easy on the quote button, maxwell, you went so far back you requoted yourself!!

In line with this discussion, it seems things like "ass" were context-dependent, obviously not OK when referring to a body part, but within reason could be used if it was clear you might be talking about one of Francis' relatives (I seem to recall an "ass" gag or two slipping into the Francis movies, as well).

Here's a question, what was the hierarchy of the "suits" in terms of censorship? I know that both Network and sponsors would be big players in this game, but what was FCC regulation like in the days of Jack's radio program? Who was responsible, or caught flak first for slip-ups?

[scottp]

My grandmother was widowed before WWII and then had jobs as bookkeeper, before going to work at an Ordnance Depot. There she picked up some risque jokes which she would repeat at home-- something she hadn't done in past years.
My mother remembers part of one-- only its punchline-- "With the help of God... and a long-handled toothbrush..."
I've tried to Google various combinations of key words, hoping to find the joke that goes with it, but to no avail.

[Maxwell]

Whoa, easy on the quote button, maxwell, you went so far back you requoted yourself!!

In line with this discussion, it seems things like "ass" were context-dependent, obviously not OK when referring to a body part, but within reason could be used if it was clear you might be talking about one of Francis' relatives (I seem to recall an "ass" gag or two slipping into the Francis movies, as well).

Here's a question, what was the hierarchy of the "suits" in terms of censorship? I know that both Network and sponsors would be big players in this game, but what was FCC regulation like in the days of Jack's radio program? Who was responsible, or caught flak first for slip-ups?

Oops! Sorry about that. I'm usually pretty careful about such things, but the one other message board I frequent blocks out quotes of quotes, and it slipped my mind this time around. (Hey! I'm old--definitely over 39 at least.)

I know there was a lot more regulation of the radio industry back then than there is today. Individual stations were required, I think until around the '80s, to have a certain amount of public affairs programming, religious programming, etc. Commercial time was strictly regulated. Heck, only a few years before Jack's commercials weren't allowed, so they got around that with such things as "The A&P Gypsies," "The Cliquot Club Eskimo's," etc. (One of the best I've run across was on a radio broadcast by Franklyn MacCormack on WGN radio one Saturday night in the '60s where he played a record featuring a radio band, "The B.F. Goodrich Silvertown Orchestra" or something like that.

My guess is that if you slipped up, especially intentionally, the FCC (or whatever it was called then) would have gone after people bigtime.

[shimp scrampi]

My history may be rough in this area, but I wonder how many obscenity fines or prosecutions were ever levelled by the government during radio's golden age. I can't think of anything notorious. Seems to me, content was much more controlled by the sponsors' fear of embarassment, and to a slightly lesser extent, the networks. Almost an inversion of the various current alignments on these issues.

Case in point, the Bing Crosby "Who the hell" expletive, it seems like after a brief bluster, mostly from the network and/or sponsor (not clear on exactly who was the most outraged) - nothing at all came of it.

Of course Jack had a long track record of a popular, and generally clean program. Might have been different if it were a lesser light that flubbed. This gets back to the original idea of "naughtiness" being context-dependent - perhaps more dictated by the execs a show was immediately responsible to rather than a specific code a-la the Hays code.

[bboswell]

My history may be rough in this area, but I wonder how many obscenity fines or prosecutions were ever levelled by the government during radio's golden age. I can't think of anything notorious. Seems to me, content was much more controlled by the sponsors' fear of embarassment, and to a slightly lesser extent, the networks. Almost an inversion of the various current alignments on these issues.

Case in point, the Bing Crosby "Who the hell" expletive, it seems like after a brief bluster, mostly from the network and/or sponsor (not clear on exactly who was the most outraged) - nothing at all came of it.

perhaps more dictated by the execs a show was immediately responsible to rather than a specific code a-la the Hays code.

Of course the first thing that jumps to mind is the Mae West incident in the 12/12/37 episode of Edgar Bergen/Charly McCarthy show. After that, her name could not even be MENTIONED on the air, (over NBC, anyway.)

The FCC WAS involved with this, and after an investigation...(have you ever heard this episode? It's only Mae West being Mae West!)...they had a list of stations that broadcast the show, and said that they would keep the episode in mind when reviewing applications for license renewal!!

It was the "wardrobe malfunction" of 1937.

[Maxwell]

My history may be rough in this area, but I wonder how many obscenity fines or prosecutions were ever levelled by the government during radio's golden age. I can't think of anything notorious. Seems to me, content was much more controlled by the sponsors' fear of embarassment, and to a slightly lesser extent, the networks. Almost an inversion of the various current alignments on these issues.

Case in point, the Bing Crosby "Who the hell" expletive, it seems like after a brief bluster, mostly from the network and/or sponsor (not clear on exactly who was the most outraged) - nothing at all came of it.

Of course Jack had a long track record of a popular, and generally clean program. Might have been different if it were a lesser light that flubbed. This gets back to the original idea of "naughtiness" being context-dependent - perhaps more dictated by the execs a show was immediately responsible to rather than a specific code a-la the Hays code.

One big difference between radio and TV now compared to the way it was before ca. 1970 is that there was a whole lot more sponsor control back then. It wasn't just the "Jack Benny Program." It was also the "Lucky Strike Program." The sponsors had a great deal of control.

TV was a little more expensive to produce in the early days, and in the '50s you started getting shows with alternating sponsors. (I recall Burns and Allen being sponsored by Carnation Milk and B.F. Goodrich tires, for example.) The way it worked was that the week's sponsor would get two commercials and the alternate sponsor would get "a word" in the third commercial break.

By the late '60s, I think about the only shows with a single sponsor was the Kraft Music Hall (Perry Como's show) and "Bob Hope Presents the Chrysler Theater." I'm pretty sure Kraft gave up after Chrysler. With most shows there were several "sponors," and less control. That's where you get the battles over censorship by The Smothers Brothers, the semi-risque stuff on Laugh-In, etc.

[shimp scrampi]

Two short and very informative articles on the OTR censorship issue are here:

http://members.aol.com/jeff560/am8.html

(Scroll down to the censorship section)

It's interesting how the arguments don't ever change. That being said, I imagine if the powers-that-be then would keel over seeing what's on TV and radio now. To quote Marge Simpson (watching TV in the future): "FOX turned into a hard-core sex channel so gradually, I hardly noticed!"

[Gerry O.]

One big difference between radio and TV now compared to the way it was before ca. 1970 is that there was a whole lot more sponsor control back then. It wasn't just the "Jack Benny Program." It was also the "Lucky Strike Program." The sponsors had a great deal of control.

Yes, in fact Jack often did routines on his radio show where the sponsor would phone Jack and dictate the way that the show should be run.....the sponsor wouldn't like a certain joke, or think that Jack and the gang should do a certain kind of sketch, etc.

[bboswell]

Two short and very informative articles on the OTR censorship issue are here:

http://members.aol.com/jeff560/am8.html

That was a very interesting article. I had no idea that before 1937 it was not uncommon to hear "hell," "damn," and "silly ass" on the air. Are there any examples of that on Jack's show?

[Andy Klein]

Coming in late here and catching up on a couple of things....

Another favorite occurrence of the word "po-po" is in Billy Wilder's Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, where Watson makes a big deal about how lovely the ballerinas' po-pos are.

To say that the Production Code went into effect in 1930 is only part of the story. Technically, it did...and it then went unenforced for four years. The "golden years" of really daring "precode Hollywood" (as defined in most books on the subject and frequent retrospectives at places like the UCLA Film Archive) are 1930-1934, when films like "Baby Face," "She Done Him Wrong," and "Man's Castle" were made. So all of the Marx Brothers Paramount films were "precode."

At the risk of posting too verbosely, I'll cut and paste from an article I did about a decade ago:

In 1922, the studios formed the Motion Picture Producers and
Distributors of America -- later the Motion Picture Association of
America (MPAA) -- and hired away Will Hays, President Warren G.
Harding's Postmaster General, to run it.
At first, the Hays Office was little more than a placating gesture,
a public relations ploy -- as a glance at the flapper and gangster
movies of the next dozen years makes clear. In 1930, increasing pressure
from Catholics led to the adoption of the explicit and restrictive
Motion Picture Production Code, to which the studios paid no more than
lip service. The code was laxly enforced...until the mildly ribald
comedies of Mae West pushed things too far, creating a surge in protests
and proposals for censorship legislation.
In 1934, Hays -- in a significant gesture -- changed the name of
the Association's Studio Relations Office to the Production Code
Administration and announced a new set of rules. All scripts had to be
cleared in advance; code violators could risk a $25,000 fine; and
members (who at the time still owned the major theater chains) could not
exhibit any film without the Production Code Seal.

[bboswell]

I have heard a few things lately that have related to this post.

The context seems truly to be the thing. I have heard "hell" used a couple of times in my listening of the last few days.

The first one was sung in Fibber McGee in the Army Air Corps Hymn where it says:
Down we dive, spouting our flame from under,
Off with one helluva roar

(Although they skipped the verse that has the phrase "God only knows." which could have been for time, not necessarily content.)

Also in 1953 there was a Suspense episode entitled "Hell Fire" The title was repeated several times throughout the broadcast. This certainly would have been noticed by censors. Perhaps television was taking all of the attention away from radio censorship at the time??

Also, has anyone heard of "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" raising much furor when "Gone with the Wind" came out? That was in 1939, after the Production Code started becoming more strictly enforced. (Thanks Andy Klien!)

[bboswell]

(Thanks Andy Klien!)

Oops I spelled your name wrong. My German profs would have my head for that one. Sorry Andy Klein!!

[Andy Klein]

Actually, there are a bunch of Kliens out there, though I can't for the life of me figure out how that happened, *except* as a preserved misspelling. I know that Kline, Cline, Klyne, and Clyne were all Anglicized versions, and Clein was probably a poorly done Anglicization, but Klien and Clien have always baffled me. Maybe these were Dutch versions or Alsation or something.

Back on topic, this is what someone posted on the IMDB, and it's what I recall hearing for years:

># In 1939, the Hollywood Production Code dictated what could and could not be shown or said on screen, and Rhett Butler's memorable last line raised red flags. A few of the suggested alternatives were "Frankly my dear... I just don't care," "...it makes my gorge rise," "...my indifference is boundless," "...I don't give a hoot," and "...nothing could interest me less." Fortunately, producer Selznick elected to pay a $5,000 fine and keep the original, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

[scottp]

I seem to recall a Carol Burnett Show with a battle scene, where they use the line, "You want to get out of this stinking heckhole, don't you?"

(And until now I didn't realize how edgy the word "stinking" was!)