Favorite/Least favorite tertiary characters

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Favorite/Least favorite tertiary characters

Postby Radioman » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:33 am

Aside from Don, Phil, Jack, Mary, Roch, etc, who is your favorite and or least favorite "tertiary" character, that is, one that isn't a regular but we hear often?

I've already discussed my liking of Frank Nelson in other threads.

I like Andy Devine okay, but he was never my favorite. And he was on a LOT of episodes. I guess I would have had to be familiar with his movies to appreciate him.

Mr. Kitzel is my least favorite; I find him so annoying, and I only recently learned he was a Jewish character (found out in Sunday Nights at 7). I had no idea what nationality he was supposed to be. I usually fast forward through his parts.

The telephone operators are okay, "Hey Mabel? Yes Gertrude?" but I never cared for them all that much.

Dennis's mother is hilarious. I picture her as Ma Kettle yelling at Jack.

Mel Blanc's characters are always classic. His repeating characters are great, such as the hapless clerk during Christmas.

Never cared much for Mr. Billingsly, the boarder.

Ed, the guard, is good, but wasn't ever used enough.

There are lots more. Additions?

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Re: Favorite/Least favorite tertiary characters

Postby LLeff » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:25 pm

Radioman wrote:The telephone operators are okay, "Hey Mabel? Yes Gertrude?" but I never cared for them all that much.

Dennis's mother is hilarious. I picture her as Ma Kettle yelling at Jack.


Funny how you and I are diverging on this...I love Billingsley, because I have a very surreal sense of humor. On the other hand, Dennis mother--at least in the early days when you were getting large doses of her--is someone that would make my blood pressure rise because she was so completely overbearing and annoying that I wanted to reach through time and slap her. In later years not so much, because you'd only get her on maybe two or three shows per year.

I am also a big fan of Shlepperman. And as many of you know, Sam Hearn (who played Shlepperman) wanted to come back on the show, but they had Auerbach doing Kitzel by that time and didn't need two Jewish characters. So Hearn became the rube from Calabassas.

So here are some other tertiary characters for consideration (just off the top of my head with no + or - vote from me):

Rube from Calabassas
Race track tout
"I dunno" guy
Sportsmen Quartet
Carolyn Lee
The Beavers
Belly Laugh Barton
Steve Bradley
Daisy Dickinson
Gladys Zybisco
Phil's daughter
Rochester's friend Roy
Joe Besser
Door guy (OK, I have to say I love Harry Baldwin in this role)
Mooley guy (as perfume clerk, lingierie clerk, etc.)

There, that ought to be enough...
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Postby Gerry O. » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:39 pm

One of my favorites is Iris Adrian as the tough, wise-cracking waitress. She was only on occassionally, but she was hilarious...and the mental image of poor Jack sitting at a lunch counter trying to eat a sandwich or drink a cup of coffee while this waitress is standing there insulting the heck out of him is priceless!
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Postby shimp scrampi » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:09 pm

Iris Adrian is great, those lunch counter exchanges are every bit as memorable as the Frank Nelson bits.

Others up for consideration might be Butterfly, and the Paulines. A few of the guests like the Colmans appeared so frequently they probably number more total appearances than some of the minor characters that didn't last.

I'd also subdivide Mel Blanc up a little (since we're talking characters): Professor LeBlanc, Sy, Polly, the Christmas Clerk, etc. Some I like more than others - but generally like them all.

From the roster at hand, the only ones that get strong negatives from me are Andy Devine (aaah, that voice - it's Mr. Haney on helium!) and Steve Bradley (he's just too rapid-fire showbiz stereotype - seems way out of sync with the Benny show)

Strong positives are Verna Felton (though I can understand how the character could grate with overuse), The Beavers (I think the show ideas with Jack interacting with these kids are funnier than the actual beaver kids, per se), and the racetrack Tout.

When I first listened to the show I found Kitzel jarring as well, probably because like Radioman's experience upthread, it's such an anachronistic ethnic/comic caricature (even probably was by the late '40s) that I really didn't "get" the character, but now I love Mr. Kitzel. He's the anti-Nelson - the lovable friendly face that pops up everywhere. Wow, there's all kinds of yin and yang on the Jack Benny show, isn't there?
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Postby Clyde » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:50 pm

Iris Adrian is a favorite. I also enjoy the race track tout and Mr. Billingsley. Dennis' mother is also a favorite as are Gertrude and Mabel. If I had to chose between Schlepperman or Kitzel, it would be Schlepperman. I always have enjoyed Andy Devine, but have always had a difficult time in defining his exact role.

The only character that I can think of at the moment that I did NOT care for was Steve Bradley, the fast-talking agent.
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Postby Radioman » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:47 pm

Thanks everyone for adding more names to the list. When I wrote the post earlier, I was in between tasks at work and had to keep it short.

I liked Rochester's friend Roy (and Don Wilson once called him "Rochester's boyfriend." That was a bit jarring.) I don't know that I heard Roy more than three or four times, though.

I thought Butterfly was wonderful. As Mary's maid (and Rochester's niece), she was sort of a yin to the yang that was Rochester.

I found Andy Devine a little annoying at first, but I grew to like him. He was just always so happy, always having a great time. And no, he never had any defined character on the show; he was more of a wacky guest.

Mel Blanc definitely needs some subdivision. I liked most everything he did except Sy. He also once played a "French waiter" in a restaurant, then revealed that he was from the Bronx and just put on that accent "for the rubes." Funny stuff.

I never cared for the racetrack tout. "Psst, hey bud." "Who, me?"

But the guy with the gruff voice at the perfume counter at Christmas makes me laugh out loud everytime I hear him. I picture a huge guy with black hair and a cigar.

Laura, it's funny we disagree about Dennis's mother. Sure she makes one's blood pressure rise, but she's so mean to Jack and treats Dennis like a little baby. I agree she's better in smaller doses, though.

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Postby LLeff » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:04 pm

Radioman wrote:Mel Blanc definitely needs some subdivision. I liked most everything he did except Sy.


OK, our divergence on other things is totally eclipsed by our alignment on this. I get more questions on and people looking for the "Si Sy" routine than any other single Benny gag...maybe more than all the others COMBINED. And...I don't say this in public too often...but...*sigh*...*looks around furtively*... :roll: ...I don't get anything out of the Si-Sy routine. Well, I get something out of watching Jack crack up. But the routine itself is a mystery to me. I defy anyone in comedy today to try a routine like that--not as a throwback/tribute to Jack, but a routine of that structure--and have it work. I'm not saying it doesn't work...it obviously does because so many people are so committed to finding it. But I can feel my brain check out when it starts because I know exactly what's going to happen.

All right, *flinching* I'm ready for the stoning.
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Postby Maxwell » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:56 pm

LLeff wrote:OK, our divergence on other things is totally eclipsed by our alignment on this. I get more questions on and people looking for the "Si Sy" routine than any other single Benny gag...maybe more than all the others COMBINED. And...I don't say this in public too often...but...*sigh*...*looks around furtively*... :roll: ...I don't get anything out of the Si-Sy routine. Well, I get something out of watching Jack crack up. But the routine itself is a mystery to me. I defy anyone in comedy today to try a routine like that--not as a throwback/tribute to Jack, but a routine of that structure--and have it work. I'm not saying it doesn't work...it obviously does because so many people are so committed to finding it. But I can feel my brain check out when it starts because I know exactly what's going to happen.

All right, *flinching* I'm ready for the stoning.


And as you probably know, I go exactly the opposite on the Si-Sy routine. I think most of it is in the timing for me. You know it's coming, but it's how they get there that's so funny.

I think the reason you'd never get away with that routine today has to do with the ethnicity of the character. You probably couldn't get away with Kitzel or Schelpperman today either, and as for Rochester, he might make it but never in his role as Jack's valet. Times have changed.

Interestingly enough the Mel's Sy voice made his way into a couple of series of cartoons in the '50s and '60s, about the last time that kind of ethnic humor might have been acceptable in mass media. Of course he use a variation on the voice for the WB character Speedy Gonzales (except he talked faster since he was the "fastest mouse in all Mexico") and as the character Go-Go Gomez in the Dick Tracy cartoons shown on TV in the '60s.

I had forgotten about the Dick Tracy character until looking up some information on Chicago TV personality Ray Rayner who did the live segments on the show. WGN-TV showed a special on Rayner, focusing on the morning show he did in Chicago for 18 years, showing WB cartoons among other things, along with two other local kids shows from the '50s through the '90s.

I remembered the Dick Tracy cartoons. Blanc's character's full name was something like Manuel Tijuana Guadalajara Tampico Gomez, Jr. (always followed by "I think"). I had also forgotten that another character in the cartoons Heap O'Calorie was voiced by a Chicago kids TV host from the '50s, Johnny Coons. BTW, Tracy's voice was done by actor Everett Sloane. At any rate, like Speedy, Go-Go spoke much faster than Sy.
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Postby Gerry O. » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:52 am

While most of Jack's routines worked just as well (if not better) on radio than on TV, the "Si-Sy" routine works MUCH better on TV than on radio (at least it does for me). Much of the fun comes from watching Mel sitting there with that deadpan expression on his face while Jack looks around the room and tries to keep from breaking up. Just HEARING it doesn't do much for me, but I get a big kick out of WATCHING it.

As for Andy Devine, his appearances on those late 1930's "Jell-O" shows always confused me....sometimes he's treated like a guest star and other times he's treated like "one of the regular gang", but he's really neither. I know that he was originally hired to take part in the "Buck Benny" sketches, but eventually he would appear in non-"Buck" sketches, and he would take part in "regular cast" functions (holiday parties, outings, etc.). Also, he wasn't on the show every week, so you really can't put him in the same "regular" league as Don, Mary, Phil and Kenny. It makes you wonder just what Andy's purpose was supposed to be on Jack's show....but I do enjoy him (especially when you hear his non-scripted, off-mike laugh at various gags).
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Postby shimp scrampi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:58 am

"Sy" is hilarious...once. Unlike many of the repeated gags, you just can't do any variations of it. There are only so many single-syllable "s-vowel" words out there.

The first version I saw was the TV version with Mel in the world's largest sombrero, and Jack biting his hand, trying not to crack up in the airport, and loved it. Later, hearing the radio versions I'm pretty much left cold.

I'd guess it's very popular/requested because it is simple and catchy (Abbott and Costello-like, even - the kind of bit even kids could repeat on the playground), and a memorable classic Jack crack-up.

Oh, and back on topic, I forgot to mention how much I like Gladys Zybisco, too!
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Postby Maxwell » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:45 am

I guess I'm going to register my dissent again on "Si-Sy," but I think that Gerry might have found a reason why I can't get enough of it. I grew up watching Benny on TV, so my first contact with it was with the full visual impact Gerry describes. So even now when I hear it on an old radio broadcast, I can picture the scene from the TV show, and I still crack up at it. As I think I said before, I'm laughing just in anticipation of the punchline.

I think Shimp also said something as to why I still love the routine. I saw it as a kid, so it might be considered a fond childhood memory.

But I still think a lot of it is the timing, not to mention the incongruity of a Mexican named Sy (let alone his having a sister named Sue). It's just funny (at least to me), and I guarantee that the next time I see or hear it, I'll be laughing just as hard as I did last time.
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Postby shimp scrampi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:46 am

The TV gag is definitely the best permutation of Si-Sy - I've seen a clip recently but not the whole episode - my memory of it, though, is that there is a fairly long stretch where you just see a sombrero-ed heap sitting in a chair for awhile as Jack passes back and forth - it builds up some suspense before "Sy" pops up - and Gerry's right, this one is way better on TV - with Mel's stone-face and puppy-dog eyes locked on Jack, who is doing everything he can to avoid them.
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Postby Radioman » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:07 am

I guess I'm the only one here who has not seen the Sy routine on TV. Until I found this site, I had seen pictures of some of the cast in books, but I had never seen how the show was done until I saw the Camp Hahn clip on this site. I have also found a couple of the Dollar Store DVDs so I have an idea of what his tv show was like, but the DVDs only scratch the surface of available televised material.

Maybe the tv versions of Sy are better, I wouldn't know. My only frame of reference is the radio show. And I just don't find them that funny, although a lot of people do. It's clever, but it just doesn't do it for me. It's another routine I'll fast forward through.

What's funnier to me though is hearing Jack trying not to laugh while talking to Sy.

Another thing by Mel Blanc I don't find funny is this series of noises he made that he called something like the "world's smallest pipe organ." I saw him do it in one of the Dollar DVDs, I heard him do it in one of the radio shows, and it was a mainstay in the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. Seems like I heard a mouse do it on occasion. I never got the joke then, and I still don't get it. "World's smallest organ" (or whatever)? What was that all about?

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Postby TimL2005 » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:14 pm

I find most of the characters/routines funny in various degrees..The only time I ever heard Andy Devine on JB was during a holiday show.I also wondered why he was there. Funny, funny man..I have Devine on a classic Tennesee Ernie Ford Variety show from 1961..
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Postby Maxwell » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:16 pm

Radioman wrote:I guess I'm the only one here who has not seen the Sy routine on TV. Until I found this site, I had seen pictures of some of the cast in books, but I had never seen how the show was done until I saw the Camp Hahn clip on this site. I have also found a couple of the Dollar Store DVDs so I have an idea of what his tv show was like, but the DVDs only scratch the surface of available televised material.

Maybe the tv versions of Sy are better, I wouldn't know. My only frame of reference is the radio show. And I just don't find them that funny, although a lot of people do. It's clever, but it just doesn't do it for me. It's another routine I'll fast forward through.

What's funnier to me though is hearing Jack trying not to laugh while talking to Sy.

Another thing by Mel Blanc I don't find funny is this series of noises he made that he called something like the "world's smallest pipe organ." I saw him do it in one of the Dollar DVDs, I heard him do it in one of the radio shows, and it was a mainstay in the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. Seems like I heard a mouse do it on occasion. I never got the joke then, and I still don't get it. "World's smallest organ" (or whatever)? What was that all about?

allen


The only TV episode I remember Mel doing that bit for on TV was a so-called talent show in which he was one of the contestants. In that one he called it an "electric organ," iirc. Again, that's one I find hilarious, maybe because I associate it with Marvin the Martian from the WB cartoons.
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