This intrigues me....

[Maxwell]

That joke seemed very un-Bennyesque to me, too. On the other hand, the tomahawk line he used in that Cavett clip seems uncharacteristic, too. I never saw Jack work Vegas and I don't know anybody who did, so I couldn't tell you if he would have used jokes like that in his act or not.

I'd like to invite you to the chat Sunday (May 10) if you can make it. I'd like to go into this more there with people who may be more familiar with Jack's use of such material (or not) than I am. I'm not sure if I can make it because I'm acting as chauffeur to my mom for a little Mothers Day party at our son's house, so whether I'm back home in time for the chat depends on what time that breaks up and I make the drive from Joliet to Kankakee and back. However, if I do get back in time, I plan on making this a topic of discussion.

[shimp scrampi]

This reminds me of an interesting discussion we had here a few years back:

here

Which got rolling with me reacting negatively to a thoughtful post by Roman comparing Jack and Howard Stern ... I stand by my opinions in that thread; my take is that there is more to it than simple "dirty" vs. "clean" humor; whether it bothers me or not depends on the overall context and point of it is. Jack (or Eddie as Jack) mentioning his bits and pieces or sex life isn't troublesome to me, since it is ultimately that same kind of self-deprecating humor Jack excelled at. If somehow it was twisted into the kind of cruel or vapid use of blue material that is so prevalent today, that would bug me.

I'm hoping to see Eddie's show myself this summer if the stars align, so I'm extra-curious now.

Laura chipped in a bit on the Vegas material in there somewhere.

Hope you can make the chat Max, if not, happy Mother's Day!

[Roman]

I recall that on Jack's late night appearances, he rarely did his routines or shtick from his radio and TV shows. He'd mention his real age freely and, like in the Cavett Show, talk of the actual price he paid for items like his violins or cars. He was refreshingly honest and direct on these programs. And his jokes were definitely more adult or blue, although almost always directed at himself.

[LLeff]

So first off, love the fact that this thread reflects something I've said about Benny fans for a long time. Thanks to everyone for not only being respectful and thoughtful, but welcoming too. Nice to know the Forum is in good hands while I'm off trying to be a captain of industry.

I totally understand thinkingitover's reaction to some of the bluer material. Since it's Jack's radio and TV shows that we can hear/see over and over again, it creates the largest basis for our memory of him. So it can be a little surprising to be reminded that Jack didn't always stay as squeaky-clean as he did for pubic broadcast.

Should there be a "warning" on Eddie's show? I understand the thinking, but I have to disagree. Potentially anything can be offensive to someone. But I think the general sensibilities and sensitivities of people have moved in a different direction. A show like "The Sopranos" might have needed some kind of disclaimer ahead of it once upon a time, like, "This show contains images of graphic violence and sexuality. Viewer discretion is advised." And Eddie's jokes are so tame compared to so much of what you'd see on Comedy Central today, that there's an assumption that the vast majority of the audience has been "tempered" by more risque material. Heck, they're probably on par with selected stuff that Mae West was doing in the 30s. So viewer discretion is advised on any sort of media or show that one elects to consume.

To pose a more challenging question...Jack evolved some of his act over the years. In the 1960s and 70s, we often saw him with rock groups (even sometimes in costume with them) and doing the whole "generation gap" thing. In the First Farewell Special, he tries to get into doing a nude scene with Joey Heatherton. And speaking of, I still love him working with Isaac Hayes in the same special. I know that George Burns did various jokes late in life on questions of him running around with younger women, and comments of "shooting pool with a rope". Unfortunately, no comedians of Jack's vintage (and few of even the next vintage...Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Nichols and May) are still performing. But if Jack had been as ageless as he appeared, would he have evolved his comedy to do more of what he was doing in Vegas on a broadcast basis? If you were really seeing Jack performing today, could it be something pretty close to Eddie's show, or possibly even a little bluer?

Curious on folks' thoughts...

[shimp scrampi]

So it can be a little surprising to be reminded that Jack didn't always stay as squeaky-clean as he did for pubic broadcast.

Typo of the year!

I don't think it was in Jack's natural style. Plus, he was so reactive to situations... I have a hard time hearing "Now cut that out!" being replaced with some more explicit phraseology, for example - fill in your own BLANK.

But, I've no doubt that Jack would have worked the looser censorship restrictions in clever and interesting (and, as noted, self-deprecating) ways. Probably with the double-entendre kind of thing that has been brought up here.

[Mister Kitzel]

Considering that Jack Benny had an awareness of what worked best for his show, I would expect that he carefully thought about the material he presented in those later years. He must have felt what he was doing was acceptable for particular audiences.

[Sy]

I'm afraid I must agree with thinkitover's take on this. I found too many of the stories Eddie told to be vulgar and so far removed from the classy and elegant style of the Jack I knew and loved. As a result, the performance as a whole was a disappointment. That is not to say that I don't appreciate Eddie Carroll's great talents as an actor and skillful impersonator of Jack Benny. His reenactment of one of Benny's radio skits, for example, was superbly done.

I understand that Eddie Carroll started doing the show in 1983 and has enjoyed considerable success with it. Certainly the audience (mostly seniors) at the performance I saw enjoyed the show and seemed to have no problem with the sexually oriented material. The bottom line for me is that I simply have no interest in this style of humor which can be seen 24/7 on TV today. I must admit I never would have expected it in this type of show and would have appreciated some advance notice of "adult material".

[shimp scrampi]

Might be an interesting question to get Eddie to weigh in on in some future JB TIMES piece. Like I say, *I'm* not bothered by the off-color issue - but the two main critiques I've heard of Eddie's show are this one, and, as Maxwell mentioned, that he continues to perpetuate a couple of factually inaccurate Benny "Old Wives' Tales" anecdotes.

Now, Eddie's an artist and this is his show to craft as he pleases -- you can't please all of the people all of the time and all that. I don't think he necessarily SHOULD change his act because some people object.

But, I'd be interested to hear his take on why he prefers to keep both the blue stuff and the apocryphal anecdotes in there. I'm sure he's heard both of those critiques. Is it just such great material that goes over well with most audiences or what, despite irking a few on either the "vulgar" or "historical stickler" meters?